Ep 2. The Link between ADHD and Eating Disorders with psychologist Stephanie Georgiou
Stephanie Georgiou, a clinical psychologist, discusses her mission to help women improve their relationship with food and build confidence from the inside out. She shares her personal journey with an eating disorder and the lack of support she experienced. The conversation explores the impact of societal beauty standards, dieting, and social media on body image and mental health. Stephanie provides insights on normal healthy eating patterns, the dangers of dieting, and the importance of diversifying social media feeds. She also offers advice on protecting mental health, addressing binge eating, and changing the relationship with food.
The conversation then moves to discussing ADHD, a neurodevelopmental disorder that affects cognitive functioning and executive functioning. There is a strong link between ADHD and eating disorders, as people with ADHD seek dopamine through food.
The episode highlights are:
02:02 - Body Image and Confidence
08:02 - Impact of Beauty Standards and Dieting
12:32 - Social Media and Mental Health
16:08 - Understanding Healthy Eating Patterns
21:42 - Introduction and Segue to ADHD
26:19 - Undiagnosed ADHD and Self-Medication
29:10 - Treatment Options for ADHD
31:02 - The Link Between ADHD and Eating Disorders
39:04 - The Importance of Sleep for Managing ADHD
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Ash Butterss (00:01.166)
Steph, it is so good to see you again. I cannot tell you how much I've been looking forward to having this conversation. So thank you so, so much for joining me here today. For those of you who are watching or listening along, I am joined here today by Stephanie Giorgio, who is a clinical psychologist.
She is a wealth of knowledge. If you are on social media, I'm sure you've seen her sharing all of her tips, her tricks, her insights around her time as a clinical psychologist, but also her incredible knowledge around eating disorders, ADHD, perfectionism, and so much more. So I cannot wait to dive into today's conversation. Steph, how are you today?
Stephanie Georgiou (00:46.198)
Hi Ash, thank you so much for having me. I am good, I am excited. There is so much to cover, so much to talk about, so I'm really keen to hear your questions and hopefully give some really good recommendations or information for your audience.
Ash Butterss (01:04.878)
Thank you, I appreciate it. We actually met for those who don't know, the first time we met, I was hosting an addiction summit and you were one of our guest speakers and I had the privilege of sitting in that talk and I learned so much in such a short amount of time. So I have no doubt that it's gonna be the same here today. So let's dive straight into it. Steph, no beating around the bush. I wanna know what is your mission? What are you here to do? How do you wanna change the world?
Stephanie Georgiou (01:33.495)
That's such a great question that I think we should ask ourselves more often. I definitely think for me it's helping women improve their relationship with food. That's what I've always just come back to. It's what I love to teach. It's what I love to help women with. I love speaking. I love running retreats and just getting up on stage. I think next year that'll be the big stage debut. But my mission here is just to help women realize that
You don't need to lose weight to be happy that you can have a healthy, positive relationship with food and build your confidence from the inside out.
Ash Butterss (02:13.516)
I absolutely love that message. I take it from a different angle as the makeover mentor, but absolutely the same message that it's really about being able to radiate from the inside out. Because you can look great on the outside, but if you're not also nourishing and nurturing everything that happens internally, then there's still that disconnect, right? You can look incredible on the outside, but if your mental health isn't up to par, if you're not looking after yourself, taking the right amount of rest, practicing self care, then...
Stephanie Georgiou (02:35.703)
Mm -hmm.
Ash Butterss (02:42.284)
Yeah, it just, it doesn't feel great. So Steph, tell me exactly right. I'd love to know what inspired you to become a clinical psychologist.
Stephanie Georgiou (02:44.662)
What's it all for?
Stephanie Georgiou (02:53.88)
Even when you say it doesn't feel real because I got my endorsement this year earlier this year so I've been a psychologist for eight years and then I went back and did a second master's during COVID because why not? I love psychology I always loved it in high school and I went through my own eating disorder and as always many psychologists have gone through something or anyone who's in the type of work that we're in has their own
battle and struggle. So going through my own eating disorder back in the day, there wasn't much help. It was very secretive. It was very hidden, especially bulimia. I think binge eating is spoken about a lot nowadays and a lot of people relate to it, but purging and bulimia and that sort of realm of eating disorders is not spoken about a lot. And I wanted to become a clinical psychologist one, because I love learning to, I love educating and three, I just want to help.
women not go through what I went through or at least go through it on a smaller scale because it was nine years before I really addressed my problem because you know as women we're just expected to just get on with it and you should be able to sort it out and there's so many worse people than me especially in the eating disorder space so yeah it was a long journey it was a lot of studying but we're here and that's why I wanted to do it
Ash Butterss (04:16.268)
Hmm, it's so beautiful when professionals can come from a place of lived experience, right? Because you can have all the knowledge in the world, but to actually be able to really feel into what it's like to live with something like an eating disorder or a mental health condition, it's so complex. So having that level of empathy, I'm sure really helps in the work that you do.
Stephanie Georgiou (04:39.575)
Yeah, absolutely. And I've always been worried about it. I've always thought, you know, are people going to see me because I've been through this, but I find that people want to see because you have been through this. So I think it really does work for you because you get it.
Ash Butterss (04:57.74)
I'd love to ask a little bit more about your own experience having an eating disorder for nine years. When did this start? What age were you and what were the things happening around you at the time that you think perhaps influenced that way of thinking?
Stephanie Georgiou (05:13.719)
yeah well i think we all get brought up and still now you know with this thin ideal all of the disney characters are beautiful princesses who get the prince it's always the ugly stepsister that has the big nose or you know is unattractive so we're fed from a young age that thin is beautiful that this is how you should look i grew up in the whole cate moss era and the nothing tastes as good as skinny feels and
Ash Butterss (05:37.772)
Hmm.
Stephanie Georgiou (05:40.311)
Dieting was really normalized. My mom used to diet, she was on Weight Watchers, Light and Easy, all the things. So I just grew up thinking, it's normal to diet and lose weight. Like that's what you're meant to do. And this was reinforced by TV and different diets at the time, soup diets, you know, cabbage, whatever it might be. And for me, I think from a young age, yes, yeah, you were there too.
Ash Butterss (06:01.596)
my gosh, yes!
Ash Butterss (06:08.492)
yeah, I'm pretty sure I did some sort of like crazy, crazy things.
Stephanie Georgiou (06:09.719)
Yeah, we all went through it.
Stephanie Georgiou (06:16.311)
Yeah, and it was almost competitive. You know, you'd bond with your friends like, my gosh, let's see who can lose the most weight or I'm doing this diet. And it was really normalized, especially on social media. We had the whole clean eating movement. And I think that's the time Instagram came out. But for me, you know, when I was younger, I loved performing. I loved dancing. I loved singing. And I was just wanted to be a model. And I did get into some modeling and I did have
a photographer sort of comment on my body and say, did you eat before you came before a photo shoot and said, you're bloated. You shouldn't eat before a shoot. And then my already insecurities were heightened. And I decided to sort of cut out bread and cut out food. And then that restriction is unsustainable. So then that led to binge eating. And then because I was so fearful of weight gain, then I would purge to try to compensate.
but I didn't realize that the restriction and this preoccupation with trying to lose weight was actually leading me to essentially not lose weight and gain weight and be stuck in this vicious cycle.
Ash Butterss (07:28.972)
And is that something to do with the levels of cortisol and the stress that you're putting on your body to try to lose the weight?
Stephanie Georgiou (07:37.815)
Yeah, absolutely. Losing weight, even mentally telling yourself I'm fat, I'm disgusting, I shouldn't have eaten that. That's stress and stress increases cortisol. Cortisol is your stress hormone that makes you hungry, that makes you wanna eat food for quick energy such as sugars and carbs. And when you're in that state, your body is gonna hold on to everything.
And not only that, when you're compensating, so for bulimia, it's either purging, laxative use, et cetera, that causes gastrointestinal distress, that causes bloating, that causes gut issues, and that just reinforces people's dissatisfaction with their bodies. I'm so bloated, I might as well just binge eat. And it's such a vicious cycle that usually people need to do the opposite of what they think they need to do to get out of it.
Ash Butterss (08:12.94)
Mm -hmm.
Ash Butterss (08:31.564)
It's almost counterintuitive. You know, I'm just thinking we get fed so much information around, like you mentioned earlier, the healthy eating, clean eating movements. This is what you should eat. This is what you shouldn't eat. And there's so much mixed messaging out there. What would you say determines normal healthy eating patterns?
Stephanie Georgiou (08:37.815)
Yeah.
Stephanie Georgiou (08:59.031)
Yeah, such a great question. Look, there's this spectrum, you know, normal eating, dieting, subclinical eating disorder, eating disorder. And at the end of the day, signs of normal eating is eating when you're hungry, stopping when you're full, not thinking about food 24 seven, having room for other activities in your life, not having anxiety around food, not weighing food, not.
speaking about it or thinking about it 24 seven. So it's really the level of impact that it has on your life, how much mental real estate it takes up. And once upon a time we were all normal eaters, kids are very intuitive eaters, but those signs get shoved down like, don't cry, have a lollipop. Or if you finish your whole plate, then you get dessert. So without realizing it, parents mean well, but they might actually be suppressing your natural.
hunger cues from a young age and that's where it all starts.
Ash Butterss (09:58.412)
And what do you think about, you know, there's, there's like fasting, you should do fasting or you should or shouldn't eat breakfast. Like how do you wade through all of these contradictory pieces of information?
Stephanie Georgiou (10:08.631)
Mmm.
Stephanie Georgiou (10:12.407)
Yeah.
Stephanie Georgiou (10:18.583)
I think the most important thing is to really ask yourself, why am I doing this? Why am I looking into this? So there was a lady in my program and she used to do fasting and would just have black coffee till afternoon and I asked why and she couldn't answer me. She's like, I don't know, isn't that just what you do? But why? And at the end of the day, if your goal is to build a healthy relationship with food, dieting is the worst possible thing.
you can do because it just perpetuates starvation, perpetuates that you're not enough in the current body you're in. 95 % of people who go on a diet will go to regain that weight in a five -year period plus interest unless you adhere to a very rigid strict life of eating and who wants to do that unless you're you know getting paid for it and you're selling programs and you're online like who actually wants to do that with their life?
Ash Butterss (11:17.868)
Exactly right. It's such a restrictive way of being.
Stephanie Georgiou (11:24.215)
Exactly and I think the biggest question I would encourage people to ask themselves is why do you want to lose weight? And people say it's for my health but losing weight isn't actually healthy and what you'd find is people at all weight shapes and sizes don't have any health issues it's a preference to be thinner. So I think it's important to dig deep and really ask yourself that question do you think
Ash Butterss (11:25.132)
and
Stephanie Georgiou (11:50.775)
You're gonna have more confidence. Do you think you're gonna attract a partner? And if those are the reasons, if they're psychological, you wanna work from the inside out instead of putting all your eggs in that weight loss basket.
Ash Butterss (12:05.004)
So true. What would you say then around how do we protect our mental health in regards to what we're exposed to? Cause I'm thinking, you know, you mentioned earlier, the Kate Moss era. I also remember growing up and there would be like new idea and there'd be, what was her name? Nicole Richie and Paris Hilton. Like they were always on the front cover and they were so, so thin. Now today we don't really.
Stephanie Georgiou (12:16.535)
Mm.
Stephanie Georgiou (12:31.959)
Yes.
Ash Butterss (12:32.524)
buy magazines, but Instagram is their 24 seven and it's the same sort of thing. In saying that, I know there's some incredible creators out there like yourself who are really trying to normalize just natural bodies and normal eating. I don't even want to label it healthy eating, like just intuitive eating. But how can somebody protect their mental health who feels like perhaps they're being exposed to it constantly?
Stephanie Georgiou (12:44.407)
Mm.
Stephanie Georgiou (12:52.471)
Yeah.
Stephanie Georgiou (13:00.7)
Yeah, it's such a big shift over the years of social media. Research shows that just spending 30 minutes a day on social media makes you more dissatisfied with your body and more conscious of your body. We didn't have it shoved in our face back then as much as we do now. And the issue is you've really got to ask yourself, who am I following? Do they make me feel good about my body or do they make me feel bad? Like, am I comparing?
Am I expecting myself to look like that? And what people don't realize is they're assuming that these people live a magic, awesome life. But let me tell you, I know the women who have the perfect bodies, who are the size eight, who are lean, who are tired, who are shredded, and they have so many problems. They're single, they have depression, they have anxiety, they have drug addictions. And the keys to really ask yourself,
How diverse is my social media feed? Do I have people of different weight, shapes and sizes, different cultures, different skin types and different, you know, able bodies and disabled bodies and every type of variety? Because what we find is the reason people are so dissatisfied with their appearance is because they are comparing themselves to a very unrepresentative sample of the population. They're comparing themselves
to the perfectly curated 15 second highlight reels of people on Instagram, they're comparing their 24 seven pajamas, eating ice cream body to that perfect 15 seconds of someone who's trying to sell you something. Whereas you're not comparing yourself to every third person walking down the street. You're not comparing yourself to the person, the guy with a beer gut. You know what I mean? So of course you're gonna feel unhappy.
Ash Butterss (14:48.108)
you
I'm just I'm so there. It's happens to me all the time. I'm on I'm on Instagram a lot, you know with my work and connecting with my community and I catch myself comparing and and I always think to myself, how do they look like that? It seems so unattainable and then whether you're conscious to it or not then that the inner critic starts up and the dialogue and it's just it's horrible. It's horrible. I just
Stephanie Georgiou (15:06.876)
100%.
Ash Butterss (15:19.372)
I feel like when I have some distance from it, that's when I almost like get to reset a little bit.
Stephanie Georgiou (15:21.02)
Yeah.
Stephanie Georgiou (15:26.365)
Absolutely and comparison really is the thief of joy. So there's things that we do that reinforce bad body image. So things like comparison, things like constant mirror checking, things like constant mirror avoiding, things such as feeling guilty after eating, putting these really rigid rules and standards on yourself is going to lead you to feel bad.
And when you feel bad, you're gonna try to self soothe, whether it's through food, whether it's through working so much, whether it's through addiction. The key is you don't wanna feel bad because you do things that keep you feeling bad.
Ash Butterss (16:08.492)
So where is the line then Steph? Cause I'm just thinking of a client of mine at the moment who has been sharing with me that she's identified some binge eating that's starting to play out. She has gone from having an addiction to alcohol to now overeating and she's aware of it and she is aware that it's a self soothing technique. So
Where do we draw the line? At what point does that need to become an area of focus or perhaps professional help is required?
Stephanie Georgiou (16:32.508)
Mmm.
Stephanie Georgiou (16:41.276)
That's such a good question and a good point because there is something called a transfer addiction and that term is when someone who has an addiction of some sort then develops another one. So they found that 50 % of bariatric patients who had, you know, a binge eating problem will go on to develop an alcohol problem because of transfer addiction because they haven't really targeted the key problem. And with the person you're speaking about,
It becomes a problem when it's happening more often than you'd like when you feel guilty and ashamed Everyone over eats from time to time. That's really normal, you know Christmas Easter. It's really normal to have episodes where you're like, whoops had too much pudding had too much cake, but it doesn't linger for three business days, you know, it doesn't cause this guilt and shame and anxiety and desire to
Compensate in bulimia with binge eating disorder people don't compensate they binge eat But if you were binge eating at least once a week for at least a month That'll probably meet the criteria of a binge eating disorder if it's interfering with your life on a consistent basis
Ash Butterss (17:55.756)
And what are the next steps once you've identified that if someone's listening here today and they they've identified that that's playing out for them?
Stephanie Georgiou (18:00.445)
Yeah.
Stephanie Georgiou (18:04.511)
What do you do? The first thing is awareness, which is great. If you've noticed this is happening for you, know that it doesn't get better. A lot of people have this problem, Ash, but 75 % of people won't seek help for it because they think dieting and losing weight is the problem. So if you've gone from alcohol to binge eating, obviously these self -soothing modes are meeting a need of some sort. And we have to figure out what that need is.
80 % of people who binge eat are under eating. So they restrict during the day and then they binge eat at night. The first thing we do in food freedom is we target food structure. What you'll find is people who binge eat, as I'm sure people with alcohol use, have really irregular eating patterns. They probably don't eat properly, they skip breakfast, they rely on caffeine, and by the end of the night they're just like gone wild in the fridge. You know, it's all willpower. It's got nothing to do with willpower, but they feel out of control.
So the first thing is food structure. Once someone is eating regularly, say three meals, two to three snacks, if the binge eating is still happening, then it's likely to be emotionally related. So what we teach is emotion regulation, which I know you're really big on as well, because when you're in a calm state, you can make clear, calm decisions. When you're in that fight or flight part of your brain, it's impulsive, it's irrational, it's...
just trying to get its needs met. And this is where binge eating happens. So if we lock our brain down and we're in the smart brain by regulating our nervous system, then we don't need to use food to self soothe. We can try to use other methods or at least delay the urge to binge and delay the urge to purge.
Ash Butterss (19:51.466)
Hmm. Hmm. That's beautiful advice. So even perhaps taking a of many, I'm sure, but I'm thinking even just perhaps taking a simple breath technique where you extend your exhalation and try and drop yourself into your parasympathetic nervous system so that there's that state of rest and digest and calm. And, you know, perhaps that could be a way to self soothe rather than pick up the bag of &Ms or whatever it is that you're going for.
Stephanie Georgiou (19:53.918)
They're the first two steps.
Stephanie Georgiou (20:21.343)
Yes, and then stage three, there's four stages. Stage three is changing your relationship to the bag of &Ms. It's changing your self -talk when it comes to food because the &Ms are not the problem. It's your thoughts about eating &Ms because why can someone eat &Ms, you know, and say, yum, cool, &Ms, done, life goes on. Whereas someone eats &Ms, my God, I've eaten so much, I'm gonna gain weight, I have no control, that's it, tomorrow I'm gonna eat salad.
The only difference are these two people's thoughts and self -talks. Unless you change the thoughts, your behavior with the &Ms is not going to change. So rather than thinking, shoot, I ate &Ms, I might as well eat a cake and just go wild on it. You think, I'm allowed to eat &Ms and &Ms are available to me at any time. We want to create this abundance with food because it's likely if you've dieted, you've got this scarcity mindset.
and then say, do you know what? Maybe I had more &Ms that I planned, but it's okay. I'm not a bad person. Life goes on.
Ash Butterss (21:27.458)
That just sounds like an absolute game changer to me. I think I definitely am somebody who's fallen into the category of good and bad foods, right? And that mental torture that you find yourself in.
Stephanie Georgiou (21:37.151)
Yes, that all or nothing thinking. Yes, it's all or nothing thinking. It's really common. Yeah, in eating disorders, ADHD and perfectionism too.
Ash Butterss (21:42.218)
Exactly right.
Ash Butterss (21:51.755)
Hmm. Let's go there. I'd love to segue onto ADHD now, because it's something that you talk about a lot and I don't personally have any of the symptoms, but I cannot tell you how many of my friends, clients, it just seems to be every second person that I speak to is experiencing what they feel to be symptoms. So can we start there? Steph, can I ask you, what are some of the common symptoms?
Stephanie Georgiou (22:00.287)
Yeah.
Stephanie Georgiou (22:19.744)
Yeah.
Ash Butterss (22:20.842)
of somebody who is experiencing or living with ADHD.
Stephanie Georgiou (22:28.129)
It's so important to address this because especially in your line of work with addictions, I bet you find a lot of people are self -medicating for undiagnosed ADHD. Getting that dopamine hit, getting that need met. So basically, it's a neurodevelopmental disorder, which means you were born with it and it's in your brain. So basically, your brain has developed differently. That's why it's called neuro. We've got neurotypical.
Ash Butterss (22:40.714)
Mmm.
Stephanie Georgiou (22:57.6)
neurodiverse the way your brain was expected to develop has developed differently and what that means is your cognitive functioning your executive functioning works a little bit different so think of the front of your brain as the CEO it's responsible for planning organizing being on time you know getting your appointments right processing speed memory that part
of the ADHD brain is impaired. So they really struggle with focus, attention, concentration, time management, emotion regulation too. And there's three types of ADHD. There's the inattentive subtype, which is just, well not just, it's pretty significant. It's your focus, your inattention, struggling to start tasks, struggling to get things done. A lot of
self -criticism because of this too. And then you've got the hyperactive impulsive subtype, which is more, you know, it's like the kid you think about jumping on the couches and screaming and yelling, but in adults that hyperactivity, especially in women is hyperactive thoughts and impulsivity holding, you know, not being able to hold back from saying something, maybe interrupting others, blurting. And then the combined subtype is the combination of those two.
types of ADHD. And the reason for all of this is because ADHD brains have lower levels of access to two really important brain chemicals, which is dopamine and norepinephrine. Dopamine is the thing that makes you feel good. You feel accomplished. You feel it's sensation seeking. You feel great. Norepinephrine helps you get started on tasks. And that's why many people with ADHD procrastinate because
Ash Butterss (24:48.138)
Mm -hmm.
Stephanie Georgiou (24:50.241)
They really struggle with initiation of tasks.
Ash Butterss (24:54.474)
Right, that makes so much sense there, those two key components. And what do you think would be the reason as to why, I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I feel like this has just blown up in the last five years or so. Is there one specific reason or more awareness? What do you think it is?
Stephanie Georgiou (25:13.281)
Yeah.
Stephanie Georgiou (25:20.354)
Yeah, it has blown up and I went down the rabbit hole by accident. I just started doing some TikToks on it and it blew up and then I just took a deep dive because there's a huge link between ADHD and eating disorders, which I'll go into, but COVID, with COVID lockdowns, people were stuck at home and that's where women's difficulties really became unmasked. They were working from home, living from home and
Their ability to sort of cope was outweighed by the struggles they had. Also a lot of first time moms noticed what the hell, why am I struggling with this? With the rise of TikTok and people speaking about ADHD and the symptoms. And I think a lot of women from the generation, we kind of call it the forgotten or the generation, weren't diagnosed back then because the diagnostic criteria, it's very...
brain -based and when you think of ADHD you think of this hyperactive child that's usually a male but it's not the case. Women are more inside, they're more in their minds, they're more inattentive subtype we see but you're right it has blown up because one we're more exposed to what to actually look out for and two lockdowns made it more apparent and three I think social media has just made people aware of it.
Ash Butterss (26:49.194)
What do you think is some of the most common misconceptions then around ADHD? Would it perhaps be the one around that it's not just hyperactivity or is there are there are there traits that people are displaying and they think it's ADHD but it's actually just something that's also common?
Stephanie Georgiou (27:10.934)
I think the biggest misconceptions is people with ADHD these are their own myths that they're just lazy that they don't care you know where they could really be trying their best honestly be trying their best and another myth is that everyone with ADHD struggles with organization whereas because they are so
conscious of being late, they become perfectionistic overcompensators which we'll go into. So because from a young age they've been told there's something wrong with you, why can't you focus, you're always late, get it right. They develop this anxiety around being told off so they overcompensate, they're early to everything, they triple, double check everything as a coping mechanism. I think they're two really big myths and
What's the third one? Perhaps the people with ADHD don't care or they're unempathetic because the impulsivity can often look like that. When you're impulsive and you sometimes don't really think or you do something and you don't think about it, it can look narcissistic when really it's just the inability to hold back on your urges and impulses.
Ash Butterss (28:31.884)
Would you say that the solution is always medication or are there other ways of treating ADHD?
Stephanie Georgiou (28:40.259)
Definitely medication is the first line of management. I'd say management It's not really something you can treat because you're always going to be with it. You don't grow out of it, you know Medication is really important for many people because it's like an eyesight condition, you know when people like you don't need medication It's like saying to someone who needs glasses. Do you know what just squint you'll be fine so People might be able to get by but it's with great difficulty
And look, medication is not for everyone. Some people have tried it and don't tolerate it well or they might have medical conditions. But yes, there's three things. There's medication management, that's very important, because what that does is that stimulates the frontal lobe and it actually quietens it down so the person can focus on one thing at a time. You know when you have coffee and you're just a little bit more focused and zoned in? It's like that because caffeine is a stimulant. Yeah, but a lot stronger.
Ash Butterss (29:34.255)
yes.
Stephanie Georgiou (29:38.499)
And then the second thing they need is executive functioning strategies. So these you can get online, you can get them anywhere or get an ADHD coach, like a digital diary, planning, organizing, how to systems, they need systems, systems to do your washing, systems to do your dishes, all of that sort of stuff, which I find a lot of women have good things in place for that. And then the last one is the psychological therapy. So 80 % of people with ADHD,
have something else, whether it's an addiction, whether it's substance use disorder, whether it's an eating disorder, anxiety, depression, therapy will help with that, especially around self -worth and not feeling good enough.
Ash Butterss (30:20.94)
And you just mentioned earlier that that really strong link between ADHD and eating disorders. Can you explain why that is and what does that look like?
Stephanie Georgiou (30:34.851)
Yeah, absolutely. So the first thing is because ADHD brains have lower levels of access to dopamine, they're going to look for that dopamine somewhere. They're gonna look for that excitement and that sensation seeking. So food is the most accessible. It's not as, you know, doesn't have a lot of judgment around it in society like other options to get dopamine. And the second thing is many people with ADHD forget to eat. So.
They skip breakfast, they have coffee and then by the time they get home they're absolutely starving so they're at risk of binge eating. And then the third one is having ADHD is stressful. You're forgetting things, you're worrying about running late, you're constantly in that fight or flight, that dysregulated nervous system and in an attempt to self soothe, food, sugar, carbohydrates, anything that can sort of stimulate you is...
is used to try to calm yourself down and it's a distraction from what's really going on inside you. So there's those main reasons that we find it's linked to eating disorders. People with ADHD also aren't as aware of their hunger and fullness cues. So we work with them to identify that and learn to eat more intuitively and have systems in place for their success when it comes to their relationship with food.
Ash Butterss (31:56.109)
And so it might be something as structured as setting alarms in your phone to remember to eat perhaps. Would that be a way to create that structure in those systems?
Stephanie Georgiou (32:09.251)
Yes, as long as they don't ignore the reminders. They always snooze them or they'll ignore them. But the key is, you know, we are motivated to do what's easy. So the key is making eating regularly as easy as possible. So I usually say have three breakfasts you love, three dinners, three lunches, and just eat the same thing until you're completely sick of it.
Something that's easy to prepare, easy to take with you. Have muesli bars in your bag because we don't want to have large periods of time where you're not eating.
Ash Butterss (32:44.684)
Mm -hmm. that's such good advice. I I agree with that I'm the same if I can batch cook and have things that are there Like I just eat I bake better choices around my food because I'm the same if I don't have something easily Available then I kind of just go. well, I'll get to it later And then I get past the point of starvation and then it's almost like my mind just goes I just need to eat and That's like what you touched on earlier. You start to crave the high sugar
high carbohydrate, complex carbohydrate foods rather than, yeah, what may have been more satiating prior to getting starving, which could have been a beautiful salad and some chicken and some nuts and all the rest of it. So yeah, just being committed to those timings, I can really relate to that as well. Not even having ADHD, I think that's really good advice. And Steph.
Stephanie Georgiou (33:19.236)
Mm -hmm.
Stephanie Georgiou (33:29.636)
Yep.
Ash Butterss (33:36.619)
I'd love to touch on dopamine. This is something that you've mentioned a couple of times that there's this desire to want to get that dopamine hit and we find that through food. So what are some natural ways or some quick, easy ways that we can get dopamine that's not harmful to us?
Stephanie Georgiou (33:42.404)
Mmm.
Stephanie Georgiou (33:55.076)
Yes, such a great question and aren't we in the dopamine era? Everyone wants more of it. And there's this whole thing around dopamine fasting. Have you read about that or learnt about it?
Ash Butterss (34:07.467)
I... yes, and dopamine retreats apparently, like dopamine detox retreats I've started hearing about as well.
Stephanie Georgiou (34:17.317)
Yeah. So I think we've got to ask ourselves, you know, dopamine is great, but I think we're also so overstimulated as well. And that's why we're burnt out and we probably need more rest than dopamine. But if you want to feel good, if you want to feel energized, things you can do to boost your, your dopamine is exercise, really high intense exercise or any sort of movement. Research shows that a seven minute
You know walk a day is so good for your mental health helps you feel good Things such as cold ice baths ice plungers as hard as they are even a cold shower or just stick your arm in for 30 seconds is really good You know sunlight so important just getting exposure to sunlight. I know In some parts of the world. That's not as easy, but you can get sort of those lamps that can help but
Ash Butterss (34:55.755)
Hehehehe
Yeah.
Stephanie Georgiou (35:13.38)
Exposing yourself to sunlight first thing in the morning is amazing for your health Recovery all of that. But yeah, if there was like one one thing I'd recommend it is exercise especially because people exercise they're in a community So they're getting that need of connection and community. They're listening to music music boosts dopamine They're boosting their you know endorphins and the feel -good hormones
Ash Butterss (35:19.147)
Mm. Mm.
Stephanie Georgiou (35:40.836)
And your sense of accomplishment, when you feel accomplished and good, that lasts for a while.
Ash Butterss (35:47.884)
Hmm. it's so true. You've actually just inspired me to make sure I go to the gym later this afternoon. I completely agree. All right. And what about what?
Stephanie Georgiou (35:54.373)
Yay! Do it, do it. Yeah, and it helps with your function too.
Ash Butterss (36:02.539)
yeah, absolutely. I always find that it's actually really interesting. I had my epigenetic testing done a little while back and one of the things that came from that was that for me personally, my epigenetic profile is that training in the afternoon is actually better for me rather than training first thing in the morning. And I was one of those 5am club people and really would wake up and just go, go, go. And so it's, I've got to be honest, it's taking me a minute to, to change my schedule around, but
I love the feeling that I get when I do go to the gym around 3 .30, four o 'clock in the afternoon, it almost bypasses that energy dip that I otherwise would have experienced as the caffeine starts to wear off and whatnot. So yeah, it's been enjoyable.
Stephanie Georgiou (36:29.189)
Wow.
Stephanie Georgiou (36:47.436)
Yeah, that's so interesting because I'm the same. I think if it doesn't get done in the morning, I'm not going to do it. And I call three till four o 'clock. That's my die hour where I just sort of have an hour where I feel, you know, a bit flat and tired, which is completely normal. But I never thought to do gym at that time. What, how interesting that a genetics test, how does it know that?
Ash Butterss (37:04.139)
Mmm.
Ash Butterss (37:12.779)
Well, you basically, I am definitely no expert yet on epigenetics. However, you fall into one of eight categories and depending on the category or the profile, I should say, that will give you all of the different, I mean, it tells you like your best environment, what time of day to work out, like what are the best times to eat? Like it goes into so much detail. I'm such a novice right now, I've got to be honest, but I've been making a few tweaks and it's been really helping.
Yeah, epigenetics, it's definitely something to check out. Thank you. And Steph, what about, so we've got a great list of things that we can do to increase dopamine, but what would be perhaps one or two things that you'd recommend trying to avoid in terms of like, what are ways that we look to get dopamine that aren't particularly helpful?
Stephanie Georgiou (37:44.294)
Wow, well done.
So good.
Stephanie Georgiou (37:59.974)
Ooh, try it. Yes.
Stephanie Georgiou (38:06.95)
Well, one thing I want to say is the most underrated thing and the thing that people do not focus on the most is sleep. Sleep. There is no point doing anything if your sleep is awful. You know, sleep deprivation is honestly, I think it's the modern day pandemic. I think so many people disregard how important sleep is. People are like, my God, I only got to, you know, they'll joke about it, but sleep.
Ash Butterss (38:15.978)
you
Ash Butterss (38:28.01)
Mm -hmm.
Stephanie Georgiou (38:36.936)
Lower your life expectancy if you're not getting enough if you're not getting regular sleep So especially with ADHD, it's very co -morbid with sleep disorders and same with eating disorders If you are not sleeping you're gonna crave sugar, you know crave carbs your brain's not gonna function It's gonna make your ADHD symptoms worse. So if there's like one thing it would be Focus on sleep go to bed the same time every night research has shown that you don't necessarily you know
have to always get eight hours of sleep, that's ideal. But if you go to bed the same time every night, that is just as beneficial as getting, you know, a lot of sleep. So try to get a routine. Don't scroll on your phone at night because again, that stimulates your brain. And especially when you're watching Netflix at night, those cliffhangers and that raises your cortisol and makes you stressed and you're thinking about it and your brain's still wired.
Ash Butterss (39:26.825)
totally. Yeah, just one more episode.
Stephanie Georgiou (39:31.943)
Yep.
Just one more episode. And that's how they're designed. They're designed to boost your cortisol, keep you hanging and keep you stimulated. So yeah, if there was one thing I'd recommend focusing on, it's getting good sleep. And I promise everything in your life will be better. You are able to tolerate your emotions more. You're able to think clearly. You're able to make better judgment and decisions. So that's my number one thing, but you asked what to avoid.
what to avoid. I think sleep is really important. I mean the obvious things to avoid, you know, no I think sleep. I want everyone to focus on sleep.
Ash Butterss (40:16.457)
I love that. I love that messaging. Whenever I'm talking with my clients, I'm always talking about, how's your sleep? Have you improved your sleep? What time are you going to bed? What time are you waking up? Because I know for me as well, like you touched on, when I can be really consistent with that, the consistent time I go to sleep and wake up, that often is more important than trying to get that eight hours, especially if I'm like teaching an early morning yoga class or for whatever reason, and I can't get hung up on the length of time.
my partner works night shift, like it's not, you know, it can be really, really tricky, but just for me personally getting that consistent sleep, wake time is really important. So beautiful piece of advice and a great place for us to finish today. Steph, I have loved this conversation. You have shared so many pearls of wisdom and it's been so incredibly informative for me that I know our audience is gonna benefit from this as well. So I wanna thank you so much for your time. If people wanna track you down, find out more, where should they go?
Stephanie Georgiou (40:56.359)
So good.
Stephanie Georgiou (41:16.649)
Thank you Ash, it's been an absolute pleasure. If you're listening to this and you think, you know what, I think I might have ADHD or I'm really struggling with my eating, get in touch. I've got a free one -on -one call you can book if you're struggling with your relationship with food. And we also have an online ADHD assessment clinic if you're in Australia. So don't hesitate. My social media is mindfoodsteff and I'm sure Ash will link it below.
Ash Butterss (41:44.681)
I certainly will. I just want to say once again, thank you so, so much for your time today, Steph, but also for everything that you do. I'm super grateful.
Stephanie Georgiou (41:55.113)
Thank you so much.
Ash Butterss (41:57.673)
Thank you, see you later, bye!
Stephanie Georgiou (42:01.609)
Yay.